Brett Mason has delivered a couple of excellent speeches recounting the Australian
Labor Party's history with public finance. The Senator for Queensland is not well
known outside politics but he is fairly compelling to listen to with the conviction
that he displays in his speeches.
Title:
APPROPRIATION (NATION BUILDING AND JOBS) BILL (NO. 1) 2008-2009
APPROPRIATION (NATION BUILDING AND JOBS) BILL (NO. 2) 2008-2009
HOUSEHOLD STIMULUS PACKAGE BILL 2009
TAX BONUS FOR WORKING AUSTRALIANS BILL 2009
TAX BONUS FOR WORKING AUSTRALIANS (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) BILL 2009
COMMONWEALTH INSCRIBED STOCK AMENDMENT BILL 2009
Second Reading
Date:
Thursday, 5 February 2009
Senator MASON (Queensland) (5:37 PM) —I rise to speak on the
Appropriation (Nation Building and Jobs) Bill (No. 1) 2008-2009 and
cognate bills. The blinding obscenity about this package is not that it will not
actually work. That is obscene but that is not the blinding obscenity. It is not
even the fact that future generations will be placed in debt for who knows how long.
That is obscene but that is not the blinding obscenity. Even Labor’s financial incompetence
is no longer obscene because that is part of Australia’s political folklore—we know
the history of Labor governments, particularly federal Labor governments, and we
are used to it. The blinding obscenity is that this government and Mr Rudd propose
to push through the largest expenditure package, outside of budgets, in Australia’s
history without parliamentary oversight. That is what he proposes to do and that
is the blinding obscenity of this government.
If you want to know how significant that is—I am not very good with numbers but
I did a quick calculation upstairs—we are talking about 42 thousand million dollars.
There are, I think, 21 million Australians, so for every man, woman and child in
this nation the debt immediately will be $2,000. And for every taxpayer—there are
around 9,200,000 taxpayers—the contribution will be $4,565.22. The obscenity is
that that debt was going to be placed on every man, woman and child and every taxpayer
without proper parliamentary oversight. That is the blinding obscenity of this government.
They have been in power for 15 months and already they are pushing through $42 billion
without proper parliamentary oversight. That is a disgrace.
But politics is funny—it is an interesting profession. There are those who know
the Labor Party well and know how they operate. Mr Latham, a former Labor leader,
wrote today in the Australian Financial Review that Mr Rudd and Mr Swan:
… have jumped all over the financial crisis, not with a clear economic strategy
in mind but with an urgent sense of the political opportunity it presents.
The stimulus package is about politics, much more than being about economics. Mr
Latham knows that, the opposition knows that and Mr Rudd knows that, and that is
a disgrace.
The problem—and my colleagues have touched on this eloquently throughout the day—is
this: we now have a government that does not believe in anything. One of my favourite
topics—and I will get onto this later—is this embarrassing essay from Mr Rudd. The
problem is this: the Labor Party now no longer has any coherent ideology or framework.
Senator Boyce —They have Ruddbank.
Senator MASON —Yes, they have Ruddbank. They used to believe
in socialism. That failed universally—it has been dropped. Then they developed the
Third Way. Remember the Third Way? Mr Blair developed it—and Mr Hawke and Mr Keating.
Mr Rudd has just dumped it. And what does he propose to replace it with? Nothing
at all. I have read the essay twice. It is pathetic in its sparseness. It is funny
when I think of it; in my lifetime the Labor Party used to be a grand party of ideas.
I always opposed them. When the Maoists used to run around at university I opposed
them. Now of course all they believe in is opportunism and ‘me-too-ism’. So in my
lifetime they have gone from Maoism to ‘me-too-ism’. And what a pathetic downhill
ride it has been.
I think it was Dostoyevsky who said that the problem is that someone who believes
in nothing in the end will do anything. That is the problem with the stimulus package.
It is all about politics and very little to do with economics.
My colleagues have all said eloquently that the cardinal rule of stimulus packages
is this: make sure they are properly targeted and that you get bang for your buck.
It is all about bang for your buck with stimulus packages. Unfortunately, this $42
billion extravaganza fails that test.
One of the centrepieces of the package is the handouts to many Australians. Sure,
it is attractive superficially—we all accept that. Many people will think it is
terrific. But will it actually make a difference on the ground? Every poll I have
seen published says this: most of that money will be used to pay off mortgages and
credit cards—to retire debt—and the other part of it will be used for savings and
will not be used to spend and to stimulate. That is the problem. Again, there is
no bang for your buck. In short, this is a package directed towards social infrastructure
rather than economic infrastructure, and that at the nub is the failing of this
package.
I accept that building libraries and sports halls might be laudable. Even if you
put aside the fact, as my friend Senator Nash said, that that is of course a state
responsibility—but I am a generous man so let’s put that aside—what sort of bang
do you get for your buck and what return do you get from the stimulus package? The
same could be asked of community housing, ceiling insulation or indeed all of the
financial handouts to taxpayers: what sort of bang do you get for your buck? What
return do you get on the money you spend?
It is estimated that parts of President Obama’s proposed stimulus package in the
United States will generate a multiplier as high as about 1.7 to one—that is, every
dollar that the US congress votes to spend will generate about $1.70 in the next
12 months. As my colleagues have said, eloquently, that is because the money is
being spent on physical infrastructure projects like highways, railways and bridges,
which generate jobs during construction and then produce benefits to the economy
through reduced transportation costs. In other words, when the orgy is over something
still remains. When the orgy is over, there is something for the morning after.
There were a couple of good articles today in the Australian Financial Review.
Michael Knox, an analyst from ABN AMRO Morgans, analysed Kevin Rudd’s package. ‘What
sort of return,’ he asked, ‘will this country get?’ What return will Australia get
from Mr Rudd’s stimulus package? Michael Knox said:
The economic impact of the plan is that GDP growth is expected to be around half
a per cent higher than in 2008-09 and about 0.75 to 1 per cent higher in 2009-10.
In 2008-09 we are spending 1.7 per cent of GDP in stimulus to get an increase in
GDP of 0.5 per cent. This means we are spending $1 in stimulus to get only 30c in
GDP. This is a multiplier of just 0.3—very low by international comparison.
He concluded by saying:
By emphasising social over economic infrastructure, the bang for the buck is so
soft it might better be described as a dull thud.
So even within the terms of the government’s own reference this is a very poor package—no
bang for the buck.
What about the other objectives? My friend Senator Boyce has raised the issue of
jobs. Clearly, the opposition is all about jobs, jobs, jobs. Mr Turnbull has spoken
about it relentlessly over the last few days.
Senator Boyce —And eloquently.
Senator MASON —And eloquently! After the debacle of last year’s
$10 billion package, where it would seem very few of the promised 75,000 jobs have
materialised, the government is now rather more modestly promising that the $42
billion will ‘support’ up to 90,000 jobs. We do not know what ‘support’ means. I
am like Senator Boyce; I do not know what ‘support’ means, but presumably it does
not mean to create or to maintain.
I go to a quick bit of arithmetic, Mr Acting Deputy President Hutchins, and I am
not good at this so you may have to help me. That is 90,000 jobs at the cost of
$42 billion, which comes out at $400,000 per job. And those are not new jobs, those
are the supported jobs. At $400,000 a job, what a wonderful package! As Mr Costello
said in the House yesterday about the government’s new policy to borrow and to splurge,
we are reversing 10 years of hard work and we are doing it to support 90,000 jobs
at more than $400,000 per job. What a fiasco! That is the Labor arithmetic, and
it is not very pretty.
Rather than trying to remake capitalism, which Mr Rudd has tried to do with his
sad little essay, he should perhaps do something to ameliorate the pain that ordinary
Australians are feeling. I thought it was the job of governments in recessions to
help those in pain, rather than to try to remake the economic system, which is Mr
Rudd’s preoccupation.
Who are the principal people who should be benefiting from Mr Rudd’s concerns? The
unemployed. They are the people at the bottom of the social heap. And what is Mr
Rudd doing for the unemployed in this package? This is from a party that supposedly
believes in social justice! The government is doing absolutely nothing for the unemployed.
Do you know what? Within the next year there are going to be a lot more people who
are unemployed. So perhaps the new social democracy that Mr Rudd talks about in
this frightful little essay has nothing to do with social justice. The new social
democracy is not about social justice at all. There is no concern for the unemployed
at all. It is increasingly obscene.
Tim Colebatch wrote in today’s Age:
Those who need it are the poor people who bear the cost of the recession on behalf
of the rest of us: workers who lose their jobs, apprentices laid off, youngsters
who can’t even get into the labour market, and businesses and self-employed people
who go broke. There is nothing in this package for them.
So much for new Labor! So much for a party trying to rediscover a new direction!
So much for a sad, new social democrat who does not believe in social justice!
The worst thing, however—and my colleagues have spoken about this forcefully and
with passion—is the tremendous cost to the economy for future generations. It is
about sizing up debt for years and years to come, for our children and potentially
our grandchildren. Others have spoken at length today about the government’s reckless
policies that in just over a year have managed to turn a $22 billion surplus into
a $20 billion budget deficit and have sent Australia back on the road to government
debt. That is the problem. What is worse, judging by the legislation introduced
by the government, is that we can expect it to get even worse.
What has the government done? It has given itself plenty of wriggle room. It is
going to allow itself to borrow up to—
Senator Fierravanti-Wells —$200 billion.
Senator Fisher —$200 billion.
Senator MASON —‘$200 billion,’ is the chorus from the opposition.
What worries me—what worries the opposition—is this: when we came into government
in 1996 the budget deficit was about half that; it was about $96 billion. It took
us about a decade to pay that off. I hate to think how long it will take to pay
off if it is $200 billion. It could take an entire generation to pay off a debt
like that. It would become in a sense systemic—as it has become in the United States
and in western Europe. In fact, 10 per cent of the budget could be paying for budget
deficits of previous years. Government debt can so overburden budgets that governments
are crippled. And who pays the debt? Taxpayers in future generations. The worst
thing that could happen to this country, sir, is this: like the United States and
like western Europe we get used to living with—
Senator Brandis —Structural.
Senator MASON —structural debt that gets written into the budget
each year and cripples us. That is the long-term problem.
You will recall that Mr Costello years ago commissioned the Intergenerational Report.
You will recall his concern about intergenerational equity. This is another matter
of social justice, I might add. The opposition is raising another matter of social
justice. Who will bear the burden of today’s splurge? The point of intergenerational
equity is, as Mr Costello pointed out, this: the changing demography of Australia
means that with an ageing population there will be fewer taxpayers over the next
generation to foot the bill. That is the problem. So the systemic, structural debt
that Senator Brandis mentioned in his excellent address today is not just some sort
of myth; it is highly likely. That is what petrifies the opposition.
Senator Brandis —And no Labor government will even start paying
off.
Senator MASON —That is right. In the end, as always, it will
be the coalition that has to pay the debt off. Some might think that I have a boring
life. Perhaps I do. But I read with morbid curiosity Mr Rudd’s essay, ‘The global
financial crisis’. To those people in the gallery: I suggest that you do not bother.
The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Forshaw)—Senator
Mason, I suggest that you direct your remarks through the chair.
Senator MASON —Thank you. I suggest to you, Mr Acting Deputy
President Forshaw, that you do not read it either. Let me point out the salient
parts. Right towards the end of this embarrassing essay, Mr Rudd quotes President
Sarkozy of France saying ‘laissez faire, c’est finis’; it is the end of laissez
faire and the end of liberalism. For a start, as my colleagues know, France never
adopted free market economics. That is why they have had 10 per cent unemployment
for the last 20 years. Even worse, the irony is perhaps lost on Mr Rudd of something
that I read in Monday’s edition of the International Herald Tribune. It was:
Prime Minister François Fillon on Monday rejected demands that the French government
seek to stimulate consumer spending, rather than follow his plan to stimulate corporate
and infrastructure investment, to lift France out of its economic slump.
He rejected demands; France rejected it. The article went on:
‘It would be irresponsible to chose another policy, which would increase our country’s
indebtedness without having more infrastructure and increased competitiveness in
the end,’ Fillon said in a speech in Lyon.
If the French can get it right, why can’t this government? Even Mr Rudd’s continental
idols do not agree with him. Even the French are spending their money on roads,
buildings, ports and railways and renovating infrastructure.
I suppose it comes down to this in the end with this embarrassing little essay:
there are three policy prescriptions in this essay. They are: spend, spend and spend.
There are no other ideas in it at all. And that is the problem with the Labor Party
today, you see: they actually do not believe in anything except opportunism. That
is at the heart of the problem in the debate in this parliament and the problem
with Mr Rudd. Dostoyevsky was right: if you believe in nothing, you will do anything
to survive politically, even if you have to mortgage the country in so doing and
even if you have to mortgage future generations. That will be on Mr Rudd’s head
and on the head of this government. (Time expired)
Title:
ADJOURNMENT
Australian Labor Party
Date:
Thursday, 19 March 2009
Senator MASON (Queensland) (5:52 PM) —Mr President, I seek leave
to speak for up to 20 minutes on the adjournment.
Leave granted.
Senator MASON —I thank the Senate for its indulgence. There
is a new dichotomy in Australian politics. We have today in the opposition economic
conservatives. We have in the government former economic conservatives. But they
are much happier today because no longer do people in the government have to live
a lie. Friends like Senator Carr can tax, they can spend and they can send the nation
into debt as much as they like, and they are much happier about that. Senator Carr’s
old boss, former Premier Joan Kirner, said the other day that she was so happy that
debt was no longer out of fashion. Debt in effect for Ms Kirner is the new black;
debt is again fashionable.
The former economic conservatives, the government, have a very interesting solution
to the current economic crisis. All of us in this chamber know this: the current
economic crisis was caused by individuals and indeed by companies borrowing and
spending far too much. In the United States, and indeed elsewhere, far too much
money was borrowed and far too much money was spent by individuals and companies.
What is the solution offered by the government? It is for governments to borrow
and spend even more. That is the solution of the government. After companies and
individuals have spent too much and borrowed too much, the nation, the government,
should borrow and spend even more. That is the solution. It is a bit like drinking
to cure a hangover. That is the analogy. That is the idea the government has: to
keep on spending and borrowing even more and more and more.
There has been a lot of talk over the last two weeks about political DNA, about
what makes political parties and political leaders tick. A quick look at history
will tell us about every single Labor government since Federation. What does it
tell us? It tells us this: every single federal Labor government puts our nation
further into debt—every time. There have been 10 Labor prime ministers and they
have put this nation into further debt every time. There is not one exception. Every
time you have a Labor government they put the country further into debt. Debt is
always higher when Labor governments leave than when they arrive—every single time.
The farewell gift of Australia’s previous nine Labor prime ministers is more debt.
That is the iron rule of Australian federal politics: every Labor government, more
debt.
Go right back to the first one: Chris Watson. He was only there for a short time,
but there was more debt. Andrew Fisher—he spent a lot; he created a lot more debt.
Billy Hughes—again, he created a lot more debt. James Scullin—there was much, much
more debt. John Curtin and Ben Chifley—again, they left far, far more debt than
there was when they turned up as prime ministers. Then, of course, there was Mr
Whitlam. We know what he did. What did he do? He borrowed and borrowed, and there
was more debt. At least it is consistent. There is always more debt.
The one thing that is in Labor DNA is debt—every single time. Then, of course, there
were Mr Hawke and Mr Keating. It is funny, you know. They did not start off so badly,
but in the end the DNA came out. Mr Hawke and Mr Keating left this country in debt—$96
billion. Then, finally, there was Mr Rudd. Mr Rudd also, after six months, spent
$50 billion and put the country into debt again. That is 10 Labor prime ministers:
Watson, Fisher, Hughes, Scullin, Curtin, Chifley, Whitlam, Hawke, Keating and Rudd—10
out of 10, more debt. There is not one exception. Every Labor Prime Minister creates
further debt for this country. It is a disgraceful record. In war and peace, in
good times and bad, there is always debt. Debt is in the Labor Party’s DNA—not jobs;
but debt. The excuses change, but it is always the same rationale—debt, debt, debt
and debt, from every one of the last 10 Labor prime ministers.
There are some who doubted Mr Rudd’s commitment when he first came into parliament.
They doubted whether he would be a good Labor prime minister, because he did not
come from a union background—he was a former diplomat. They were concerned that
he might not know the Labor Party’s ways. But the Labor Party need not have worried,
because he has the DNA. He has the debt gene. He has it; the Australian Labor Party
need not have worried. Mr Rudd knows how to spend and he knows how to put the nation
into debt. He has never forgotten that. Mr Rudd fits in perfectly with the other
nine former Labor prime ministers in creating further and further debt. This country
must never forget that when Labor left office they left this country and its people
with $96 billion of debt—paying about $8 billion of interest each year to service
that debt. That is what Mr Hawke and Mr Keating left this country, just like all
the other Labor prime ministers did: debt. And they left it.
It has taken just six months for the Labor Party to spend over $50 billion and,
of course, to extend a credit line of $200 billion. If it ever happens—and it will—that
Labor spends the $200 billion, we will start to have the problem of structural debt.
That is where, every year, the budget gets consumed by interest on debt—just like
in western Europe. It becomes part of the political culture, the fabric and the
way of life of, let us say, France. And 10 per cent of the budget is taken up on
interest payments on debt. That is the problem. This credit line of $200 billion
signifies the fact that the Labor Party will do it if they feel it is necessary.
Senator O’Brien interjecting—
Senator MASON —Well, it’s funny. What worries me is that Mr
Rudd talks about turbocharging social democracy; what he has done is turbocharge
debt. Perhaps that is the same thing. That is the problem. The debt has gone up
$50 billion in six months. Only twice in this nation’s history—during the McMahon
government and under the Howard-Costello government—has there been no net government
debt. What did Mr Whitlam do as soon as he got in? He fixed that problem. He put
the country back into debt. What happened when Mr Rudd got in? He put us back into
debt, just like the other nine Labor prime ministers did. The one consistent fact
of Australian political history, the one consistent political fact about Australian
Labor governments, is debt—and there are no exceptions. What a coincidence! We know
what is in Labor DNA. It is debt. There have been no exceptions. It is always the
same. The Labor Party will bugger up the economy and they will expect the coalition
to fix it up. It happens every time. With 10 Labor prime ministers, the coalition
government to take over has been expected to fix and pay off the debt.
This is a moral question. What about the intergenerational equity? Mr Costello has
spoken often about this. This is a moral issue. The Labor Party love to talk about
equity, but they do not mind bankrupting our children or grandchildren to pay off
the debt. It is all very well to spend on behalf of today’s voters, but who is going
to pay off the debt? Our children and our grandchildren will be saddled with the
debt that these people create, just like all the other Labor governments do. There
are no exceptions. It is the one ironclad rule of Australian politics. They always
say that the great dictators love children and hate their parents. You could never
accuse Mr Rudd of that. He loves the parents; we are just not too sure if he loves
the children who will be saddled with the debt that he is creating today, just as
the other nine Labor prime ministers have created debt in the past. Every Labor
Prime Minister puts this nation further into debt. It is the ironclad rule of Australian
politics. It is absolutely disgraceful, if not scary.
Let us not forget how Labor spent their first year in office. How I remember Mr
Swan, Mr Rudd and even Senator Conroy saying: ‘The economy’s overheated. The inflation
genie is out of the bottle.’ They talked it down: the economy was overheated, interest
rates were going up and the economy was out of control. We said, ‘Go for growth.’
They talked the economy down just at the time when it needed to be talked up, making
the recession even worse. I will never forget how ‘the inflation genie was out of
the bottle’—at four per cent—and things were so terrible, weren’t they! Now, a few
months later, we know what economic terror is, their having talked down the economy.
If they had gone for growth, they would not have had the problem. Instead, they
kept talking down the economy and they failed to build up business and consumer
confidence. So well done! Mr Rudd even got that wrong—first year in office: wrong.
What is the intellectual edifice behind this change from being an economic conservative?
What is it based on? It is political opportunism, but this voodoo economics is based
on the famous essay of Mr Rudd’s in the Monthly, which of course I have read.
The philosophy, if you call it that, is unusual because it reflects an unusual state
of mind. Mr Rudd’s political and economic philosophy changes at every opportunity.
He was a Christian socialist. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the great German pastor, was
his spiritual, economic and social mentor, but he abandoned that and decided he
was a neoliberal when he was after the shadow Treasurership before the 2004 election,
under Mr Latham. He was trailing Mr Latham’s coat-tails through Labor caucus, saying
he was a neoliberal. So he went from the German Dietrich Bonhoeffer to the Austrian
Friedrich Hayek in a very short amount of time.
Then, upon becoming opposition leader, Mr Rudd called himself a self-styled economic
conservative, and he was proud of it—very, very proud of it. Mr Rudd was so proud
of styling himself as an economic conservative. He was out and proud about being
an economic conservative. There was no difference between him and Mr Howard at all,
really; he was ‘Howard lite’. He was an economic conservative and he loved every
minute of it.
The first whiff of economic grapeshot, the first bit of real tension, the first
downturn, and what happens? He drops all that. He drops Bonhoeffer, drops Hayek,
drops economic conservatism and becomes a reborn social democrat all of a sudden.
So he has changed four times in just a couple of years. Mr Rudd is, in a sense,
Australia’s first post-modern Prime Minister, because he does not actually believe
in anything. No-one I know has changes of hearts like that, except Mr Rudd—no-one
at all. My old friend Senator Carr—I always have a go at him, I know—is wrong about
everything, but at least he believes in something. Mr Rudd does not believe in anything.
He changes his mind every second week. He is like a schizophrenic Harry Potter figure,
baring his latest philosophy to some sort of focus group in Labor headquarters in
Sussex Street over a Chinese meal, with dim sims. That is where he has got this
philosophy from; it is pathetic. It is this sort of groupthink.
The essay in the Monthly is wrong. Not only is it based on hypocrisy; it
is intellectually lazy, ignorant and wrong. Mr Rudd of course does not like talking
about the fact that Mr Blair was one of the great neoliberals of the latter half
of the 20th century; a Labour Prime Minister was one of the most significant neoliberals
of the 20th century—as well as Mr Hawke and Mr Keating, of course, to their partial
credit; I will give them that.
But perhaps even more disturbing than the shocking hypocrisy of the Labor Party
adopting neoliberalism as well—even forgetting the hypocrisy—is the moral argument
here. More people have been moved out of poverty in the last 20 years than were
moved out of poverty in previous recorded history. More people have moved out of
poverty in the last 20 years than ever before in human history. It is not because
of communism or socialism or social democracy but because of free trade—yes, free
trade. Free trade and neoliberalism created more wealth for the Chinese than for
anyone else. The Chinese do not go on like Mr Rudd does. Mr Rudd takes advantage
not only of the hypocrisy but of ignoring great moral arguments.
What the Labor Party does not seem to understand is that this is about good regulation.
The fact is that the reason why Australian banks are among the best in the world
is that the regulation is very good. This same system that Mr Rudd decries in Australia—the
neoliberalism he criticises—is the same system that gave us the best banks in the
world. So not only is this article in the Monthly pathetic, lazy and ignorant;
it is just plain wrong.
And now it is worse. I understand that our high commissioners and our ambassadors
are having to run around and hawk this line to world leaders. When Australia’s High
Commissioner to the United Kingdom meets Her Majesty the Queen, I suppose he says,
‘Here, have a look at this article from the Australian Prime Minister.’ In Ulan
Bator they probably take a translation of this article and give it to the local
president, prime minister, doge or whoever it happens to be.
Our diplomats are expected to run around the world with this embarrassing little
essay, which is ignorant and hypocritical. Our embassies have been changed into
publishing houses these days. It is a pathetic, intellectually lazy and ignorant
piece of work. To have the hide to have our diplomats running around with this!
I wish they would peddle something I wrote, rather than this rubbish. Can you imagine
asking our diplomats—our high commissioners and our ambassadors—to run around with
this stuff? It is absolutely embarrassing. I feel sorry for them.
Who are the political legatees of this appalling ideology? Who are the people who
love debt—debt being the new black to the Labor Party? Of course, in Queensland
it is Ms Bligh, with $74 billion in debt. And she racked up that $74 billion of
debt—guess what—in boom times. She has just had record mining receipts of billions
of dollars. She has received billions of dollars in property taxes and hundreds
of millions in GST. And do you know what she has done, Mr President? She has still
racked up $74 billion of debt. I thought the $96 billion of debt federally in 1996
was bad. That was spread among about 20 million people. This is $74 billion spread
among 4½ million people. Talk about structural debt. When will this debt ever be
paid off, Mr President?
Of course, the Labor Party do not worry about that. They are not concerned about
paying off the debt at all, because there is one golden rule of Australian politics:
every Labor Prime Minister—from Chris Watson through to Kevin Rudd—spends more money
than they raise. They leave this country with more debt. That is an iron rule of
Australian politics. And this diseased DNA is now spreading to the Labor states.
We have got Ms Bligh with $74 billion in debt and she does not seem to give a damn.
It costs $10 million a day in interest alone to service that debt, and Ms Bligh
does not care at all. (Time expired)